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Defining Special Attack Cost, and how to get through it.
« on: November 07, 2017, 01:12:24 PM »
The SWG Community has always been a great community to me. People were really devoted to what they were doing on SWG.
With pretty few informations directly from SOE, players had to find out by themselves most of the features and game mechanics, resulting into many guides and reports.
I suppose their target was firstly to understand how SWG worked, and share with new comers their hypothesis.

The current SWGemu Restoration server has many specifics rules that the common servers don't.
Because this Restoration Community always was quite friendly but small, I could not see many guides.

The current server conversations (and complains..) is concerning Weapons stats.
Main issue was concerning the Special Attack Cost, resulting in high Action use. The idea that SpecialAttackCost was a first criteria, and current craft did not allow "good" weapons, I decided to get through it.
Here's what I got :

OBJECTIVE : Allow people to know what SAC they could allow on a weapon.
1) Define Action Cost when spamming a skill - like AOE farming
2) Stamina required to regen Action Cost
3) Realise an experimentation to confirm theory.
4) Conclusion

1) Define Action Cost when spamming a skill - like AOE farming

Skills have 2 specific factors each. It means that 2 different skills will not use the same Action Cost and will not have same Speed. Let's call them :

(Reminder) As mentionned on, Repeat Tax double the Action Cost of an ability when fired twice in a row.
Action amount used over an ability is calculated via : AbilityActionFactor * SAC.
When fired twice in a row, Repeat Tax applies and gives : AbilityActionFactor * SAC * 2

AbilityActionFactor does not seem listed for Resto, or at least I couldn't find it.
Since I wanted to give AOE Farming a go, I focused on Improved Spray Shot skill, from Bounty Hunter.

How to define the AbilityActionFactor and AbilitySpeedFactor ? Two ways : Whether data is available and we should ask Halo, OR you go the experimental way, which is what I did.

Since we know the Weapon SAC (written in Weapon Description), you can easily find out what is the AbilitySpecialFactor. Just Shoot at something, and note how many Action you used. I've repeated that to make sure it was correct and redundant.
AbilityActionFactor is defined by : Action Used / SAC
AbilityActionFactor for Improved Spray Shot = 220 / 110 = 2.

Since we know the Attack Speed (weapon description), you can also easily find out what is the AbilitySpeedFactor.
Just a bit more tricky, but to be representative, you have to make a lot of shots, and extract the Time Schedule of attacks
I did have 24 attacks in 75 seconds. That's 1 attack every 3.125 seconds.
AbilitySpeedFactor is defined by : Time between two attacks - Weapon Attack Speed.
AbilitySpeedFactor for Improved Spray Shot =3.125 - 2.23 = 0.895

Improved Spray Shot :
AbilityActionFactor = 2
AbilitySpeedFactor = 0.895s

Now that we have those specific Skill Datas, we can assume Action Cost for AOE Farming.
Gear used :
Reached 55 General Ranged Speed from Current Template, resulting in 0.55 Attack Speed reduction
Nym's Carbine : 2.8 modified speed

Attack Used :
BH Improved Spray Shot (/sprayShot2)
AbilitySpecialFactor : 2
Base Action Cost : AbilityActionFactor * Weapon SAC = 2 * 110 = 220 Action Cost
In Row, apply Repeat Tax : 2 * 220 = 440 Action Cost
Attack Speed : AbilitySpeedFactor + Modified Weapon Speed
Attack Speed : 0.895 + 2.8 = 3.695s

Every 3.695 seconds, 440 Action will be used.
440 Action used / 3.695 seconds = 119.08 action/seconds

Basically, you can assume that AOE farming with Nym's Carbine using Improved Spray shot will Cost you 119.08 action/seconds

2) Stamina required to regen Action Cost
Base Action Regen is approximatively 45 action/seconds  (Experimental way : From 100 action to 1000 action, spent 20 seconds)
Stamina Base is 1000.
1000 Stamina = 45 action/seconds

We said that you will use 119.08 action/seconds when AOE farming. So how much Stamina would you need to never run out of Action Pool ??
119.08 / 45 = 2.65 - It means that we would need 2.65 times the base regen to hold the Action Cost when AOE Farming.

2.65 Factor x 1000 Base stamina = 2650 Stamina required.
That's an additionnal 1650 stamina above BaseStamina to gain from Food/Spice/Buffs/...

3) Proposal, Theory and Experimentation.
Ok so we know the maths and theory now. Time to break rules.
People are saying Action Cost is a real issue according to current resources and material used on Resto Server.
I'd like and prove that Action Cost is NOT a problem.
So I asked Amo, WeaponSmith from Krayt's Pointe, to craft me a High Sac Weapon. He did pretty well with the High Sac (above expectation  ;) )

New Weapon, New Datas:
SAC = 170
AOE Farming = 680 Action / 4.315 seconds
AOE Farming = 157.6 Action/s
Factor = 3.50
Stamina needed : 3500 Stamina

For farming with this Crazy High SAC weapon, I would need 3500 Stamina.
This seems totally crazy.

But Since i'm BE/Chef, i took the challenge and crafted some HighLevel Food.
I could Craft Breath of Heaven and Vercupti of Aggaza
They can be used at the same time, since one is a drink, other is food.
Both, they can give 2281 Stamina. That's 91% of required Stamina during 7minutes

(Video being uploaded on Youtube. But it two words : It's pretty Impressive, but it Does work.)

4) Conclusion
SAC should not be considered THAT Much of an issue. The main issue probably comes from Unbuffed people, not using food nor spices, and keep repeating the same action.
I am not saying that 170 sac weapon is Viable for Farming, I just tried to prove we could.

My intention was also to help define what maximum SAC according to Attack Speed should be allowed to WeaponSmith. By this way, I mean to allow a certain SAC on weapon that let people AOE Farm quite easily with medium-lvl food.

For sure you do not want to spend millions of credits in Food just for Grinding.
May be a good solution would be to avoid Medium SAC Weapon with Medium Food. Proposing Medical Buffs can help too.
Now I hope that those SAC issues will not be much of troubles anymore.

Nowadays everything is going fast, and I think this have changed people's mind.
I can remember that during official CU phase I was absolutely not the same guy, and I was really farming slowly.
Now I really want a fast grind, but on the second hand, that might cost me some buffs or additionnal preparation.

Anyway, I hope that report can help in any sort.
I'm also hoping that it will not be the only report or guide !



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Re: Defining Special Attack Cost, and how to get through it.
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 07:39:38 PM »
This is a good post, the Video doesn't seem to work though.
Re: Defining Special Attack Cost, and how to get through it.
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 03:08:48 PM »
If, and when, Halo decides that adding skill tapes for Doctors to enhance their buff power, it could be very beneficial to this case. As of now, it's somewhere in the ballpark of 210 Stamina. You could add that on to your maths.

Edit: I feel if Doctor's end goal with tapes could maybe be 50-60% of what a food buff could do that at least I would be content with the buff power. Sure, it goes to all 3, but that might not be useful for everybody.

I also think for convenience sake, maybe making the 7m buffs 15m, and the doctor buffs 1h 15m would be a little more friendly as well. That would mean somebody who is fully buffed in action would be able to farm without action worries using highsac, but it would require high food/drink as well as a doctor. If doctor had to use some reagant for buffs that would also help, that way there's a price and cost to farming fully buffed.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 12:12:57 AM by withyouforyou »


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Re: Defining Special Attack Cost, and how to get through it.
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 02:26:47 AM »
Video finally uploaded.